Anybody tried miracle piano in vista? - Does it work?

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Postby Dr. John Zeigler - PEP Ed » Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:32 am

Now that Windows Vista has been released, I'm wondering if anybody out there has tried to get the Miracle software to run in Vista. Microsoft has so completely revamped Windows in Vista that one wonders how many old software packages like the Miracle will still work in it. I don't have Vista yet, but will in a couple weeks. I'll let you know.
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Postby colinpeddle » Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:52 am

Just tried installing the software in vista, no go. That was on both 64bit and 32bit versions of the OS.
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Postby Dr. John Zeigler - PEP Ed » Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:15 am

What happened with the Miracle under Vista? Did you have working disks that installed properly, but the progarm simply didn't work? Or are the diskettes corrupt? Did the install proceed properly, even if it didn't run properly? What kinds of errors did you get? thanks for replying. :cool:
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Postby colinpeddle » Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:42 am

When i'd click to set up the program, it would error saying

In 64-bit:
"The program or feature '\??\H:\MPwin\Setup.exe' cannot start or run due to incompatibility with 64-bit versions of Windows. Please contact the software vendor to ask if a 64-bit Windows compatible version is available."
In 32-bit:
It works now. It didn't the first time round, but just now I tried again to copy down the error for you and it installed fine.

I don't have a cable for my piano, so I'm just looking at the keys as they're played in jukebox and memorizing them. Half way thru clair de lune now :) heh.

Anyway, i cannot tell you if the piano itself works, but I know the program does, in vista 32bit at least.
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Postby Dr. John Zeigler - PEP Ed » Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:01 am

colinpeddle wrote:In 64-bit:
"The program or feature '\??\H:\MPwin\Setup.exe' cannot start or run due to incompatibility with 64-bit versions of Windows. Please contact the software vendor to ask if a 64-bit Windows compatible version is available."
In 32-bit:
It works now. It didn't the first time round, but just now I tried again to copy down the error for you and it installed fine.

Thanks! That's a bit of the reason I asked the original question. Since the Miracle is inherently a 16-bit program, I was concerned about the 64-bit version of Vista. Question: Does Vista have a counterpart to the Windows 2000/XP Compatibility mode and, if so, have you tried the setup program in its compatibility mode? Compatibility mode in XP was accessed via the control panel.
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Postby colinpeddle » Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:53 pm

No go.

Considering it's just me and you, I'm not going to start another thread. Do you know how to pull the music in miracle out of the compressed files? As I mentioned, I'm only using jukebox to play the music and mimic the keys. Gets annoying having to replay the song over and over. If I could pull the song out of the program and play it on another midi player, that'd be swell.

OR, if you know where to find the exact same version of clair de lune as is in the program.
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Postby Dr. John Zeigler - PEP Ed » Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:45 am

As best I can determine, the TZF archive files on the Miracle diskettes are generated by a Linux (or Unix) program called Topaz, a variant of Gzip. I haven't spent a lot of time finding file viewers for TZF files because nobody has expressed an interest before. :D

I'd be shocked if a Google search didn't turn up a number of TZF file viewers. I would assume that would work.

However ... since you have the Miracle installed in 32-bit Windows, with all the files unzipped, you should be able to use just about any of the MIDI files there with just about any of the hundreds of MIDI file players and editors.

As for Clair de Lune, you'll find it and hundreds of other MIDI files in our Audition Room. It won't necessarily be the identical version to that supplied with the Miracle, but close.
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Postby colinpeddle » Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:25 pm

Couldn't find any of the midi's installed from miracle software.

Also, I cannot seem to find an 'easy' version of clair de lune... I know one exists because I've heard a snippit of a middle section from the song that is played simple (ie: not as insane as is the one you're hosting on there hehe).

Also, .tzf is proprietary and I couldn't find a thing to view it. Winrar couldn't view it so I knew things wouldn't be well then. After googling for a while, I couldn't find jack all.

I'd love to have an easy/simple version of clair de lune if that is possible tho. All I can find is the uber hard one.
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Postby graphicfunk » Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:27 am

Dr. John Zeigler - PEP Editor wrote:Now that Windows Vista has been released, I'm wondering if anybody out there has tried to get the Miracle software to run in Vista. Microsoft has so completely revamped Windows in Vista that one wonders how many old software packages like the Miracle will still work in it. I don't have Vista yet, but will in a couple weeks. I'll let you know.

Greetings to all. First, I want to extend my appreciation to (John) Dr. Zeigler for his great contribution to this most engaging website. I play several instruments, usually one at time. That is I put one away and take up the next. I am also an avid computer user. My software consists of Band in the Box, Cubebase, Finale, Guitar pro5, and much, much more and yes, I am a collector of piano teaching software. I use all the above to accompany myself. I often prefer to enter all the instruments note values myself. Some through midi and some live.

You posed the question about the miracle in Vista. Well, this January I ran away from Windows and into the Imac. I feared the release of Vista. I have been with Windows from its inception. I started with Dos and I became a proficient C programmer and then I watched Windows evolve into the giant it is now. Every step it takes forward it renders more old software obsolete. I got bootcamp and installed WindowsXp and I have no desire for Vista at all. The new Intel Imac is indeed a wonder but, of course, it does not carry the vast amount of software that Windows does.

I have the Miracle system, dos, dos for mpu401 and the windows version. Some of my floppys are in need of replacement. However, I yearned for the Miracle's arrangements which provided me with plenty of fun. Everytime i want to brush up on the piano I go first to the Miracle and while I use a Yamaha CLP-820 I spent countless ours in recreating the patches that the miracle used. This week I decided to bring the Miracle up and use it as a module and my fancy suffered a blow! Yes, the miracle stopped playing. When you apply power all of the led remain lit. I took it carefully apart hoping I could fix it. I have had no luck.

I had read your info on the Miracle and decided to register here because I believe that I can be of some help and possibly receive help.

Anyway, the Miracle works great on Windows 98 2nd edition. XP changes the screen but still workable. I also have Teach me Piano, Midisoft Play Piano and some of the inferior new sysytems. I have the first edition of Aventus, but did not find it as friendly as the others. They used a Borland Compiler that is not as compact as Microsoft or Symantics C. Most of the new programs suffer from lack of good programming. They have opted for the slow CDrom.

Anyway, I have a sick Miracle and while I suspect the output transistors I will tend to leave it alone until I am prepared to begin unsoldering components from the board. Any advise or words of wisdom are appreciated.

Again, it is a pleasure to be part of this website. Dan
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Postby Dr. John Zeigler - PEP Ed » Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:54 am

graphicfunk wrote:
Dr. John Zeigler - PEP Editor wrote:Now that Windows Vista has been released, I'm wondering if anybody out there has tried to get the Miracle software to run in Vista. Microsoft has so completely revamped Windows in Vista that one wonders how many old software packages like the Miracle will still work in it. I don't have Vista yet, but will in a couple weeks. I'll let you know.

Greetings to all. First, I want to extend my appreciation to (John) Dr. Zeigler for his great contribution to this most engaging website.

Yes, the miracle stopped playing. When you apply power all of the led remain lit. I took it carefully apart hoping I could fix it. I have had no luck.

I had read your info on the Miracle and decided to register here because I believe that I can be of some help and possibly receive help.

Anyway, the Miracle works great on Windows 98 2nd edition. XP changes the screen but still workable. I also have Teach me Piano, Midisoft Play Piano and some of the inferior new sysytems. I have the first edition of Aventus, but did not find it as friendly as the others. They used a Borland Compiler that is not as compact as Microsoft or Symantics C. Most of the new programs suffer from lack of good programming. They have opted for the slow CDrom.

Anyway, I have a sick Miracle and while I suspect the output transistors I will tend to leave it alone until I am prepared to begin unsoldering components from the board. Any advise or words of wisdom are appreciated.

Again, it is a pleasure to be part of this website. Dan

First, let me say welcome to the Board!

Thanks for your kind comments about the site. Lots of people have given a lot of time and effort to make PEP what it is, including me. :cool:

Your Miracle keyboard problems could be caused by a lot of things. Firstly, before you do anything else inside the keyboard, have you tried a different power supply? If your power supply is failing and letting through a high voltage DC or AC component, it could cause the problem you are seeing. Our Miracle FAQ, which you have apparently seen, talks about alternative power supplies. You just have to get the voltage right and a current rating close to that of the OEM supply. The FAQ points out one known to work with the Miracle.

Second, consider running the keyboard through several on-off cycles. Microprocessors are subject to something called SEU's (Single Event Upset), usually caused by cosmic rays passing through the microprocessor, that cause the processor to lock up. The fact that all the lights remain lit when you turn the keyboard on suggests that the system is failing its self-test. Power off the system for about a half hour (or even overnight). This allows any capacitors in the circuitry outside the microprocessor to fully discharge before you turn it on again. Then, try turning it on again. You might have to do this several times before concluding that something else is going on.

I would avoid trying to work on the guts of the electronics, unless you are exceptionally knowledgeable and experienced, given that there are no schematics available for the keyboard of which I'm aware. The lack of schematics makes working on it basically "shooting in the dark".




Edited By Dr. John Zeigler - PEP Editor on 1173366071
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Postby graphicfunk » Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:46 pm

Dr. John Zeigler - PEP Editor wrote:
graphicfunk wrote:
Dr. John Zeigler - PEP Editor wrote:Now that Windows Vista has been released, I'm wondering if anybody out there has tried to get the Miracle software to run in Vista. Microsoft has so completely revamped Windows in Vista that one wonders how many old software packages like the Miracle will still work in it. I don't have Vista yet, but will in a couple weeks. I'll let you know.

Greetings to all. First, I want to extend my appreciation to (John) Dr. Zeigler for his great contribution to this most engaging website.

Yes, the miracle stopped playing. When you apply power all of the led remain lit. I took it carefully apart hoping I could fix it. I have had no luck.

I had read your info on the Miracle and decided to register here because I believe that I can be of some help and possibly receive help.

Anyway, the Miracle works great on Windows 98 2nd edition. XP changes the screen but still workable. I also have Teach me Piano, Midisoft Play Piano and some of the inferior new sysytems. I have the first edition of Aventus, but did not find it as friendly as the others. They used a Borland Compiler that is not as compact as Microsoft or Symantics C. Most of the new programs suffer from lack of good programming. They have opted for the slow CDrom.

Anyway, I have a sick Miracle and while I suspect the output transistors I will tend to leave it alone until I am prepared to begin unsoldering components from the board. Any advise or words of wisdom are appreciated.

Again, it is a pleasure to be part of this website. Dan

First, let me say welcome to the Board!

Thanks for your kind comments about the site. Lots of people have given a lot of time and effort to make PEP what it is, including me. :cool:

Your Miracle keyboard problems could be caused by a lot of things. Firstly, before you do anything else inside the keyboard, have you tried a different power supply? If your power supply is failing and letting through a high voltage DC or AC component, it could cause the problem you are seeing. Our Miracle FAQ, which you have apparently seen, talks about alternative power supplies. You just have to get the voltage right and a current rating close to that of the OEM supply. The FAQ points out one known to work with the Miracle.

Second, consider running the keyboard through several on-off cycles. Microprocessors are subject to something called SEU's (Single Event Upset), usually caused by cosmic rays passing through the microprocessor, that cause the processor to lock up. The fact that all the lights remain lit when you turn the keyboard on suggests that the system is failing its self-test. Power off the system for about a half hour (or even overnight). This allows any capacitors in the circuitry outside the microprocessor to fully discharge before you turn it on again. Then, try turning it on again. You might have to do this several times before concluding that something else is going on.

I would avoid trying to work on the guts of the electronics, unless you are exceptionally knowledgeable and experienced, given that there are no schematics available for the keyboard of which I'm aware. The lack of schematics makes working on it basically "shooting in the dark".

Thank you for your kind reply and warnings. Yes, my first suspicion was the power supply. I used a tester to verify the ac out put. It read 12 volts ac on the money. I also realize that all lights means the initialize state known better as the self test. You are right in your observations as to some of the causes. The fact that there is no schematic does make it an adventure in guessing, even if one has the experience.

Here is what took place. I hooked up the unit to my laptop for the dos installation. Everything worked fine. The input was acknowledge but playback becane erratic and then ceased altogether. The unit remained with all the leds lit and all activity stopped. I rushed to my collection of power supplies and found a 9 volt ac at 17 watts. While complete operation may not be realized i had hope that the unit would go past the self test. I then got my tester and tested the power supplies. All checked okay and I even used the 12 volt power supply from the Miracle on another unit that required a 9. Such test are common as most unit can handle the extra volts provided they are small.

My next suspicion was that the system locked up. I went into a series of off and ons and then put away the unit until the next day. Of course, I had already removed the board from the miracle. I then entertained the wishful fancy that a final test should be made with the keyboard and speakers connected. 24 later this test was tried and the unit failed to get past the self test. I then suspected that perhaps, the com receptacle may have caused the initial problem. But then, this thought was dismissed because even if there is a problem with matching pins once detached and turned on again the system should return to its natural state.

It is hard to work without a scematic. For example to check any of the capacitors, you would have to remove one leg. This is the only way to check them unless you have a schamatic that can give values of reading. Of course, these circuits are very complex and many problems remain elusive even with a schematic. The reason I said I may suspect the output transistor is the immediate heat it gives off, but I can not verify this because I never felt it before this problem. It even has a heat shield so it is obvious that it will generate above average heat.

Before proceeding further I feel that I should get another power supply since this will definitely elimitate this factor. The fact that it proves okay in a tester is not a 100% proof, in the event that the integrity is compromised by inconsistent behaviour. Anyway, the unit is put away until further testing.

Thank you for your cooperation and I will keep you posted of my progress or its lack. lol dan
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Postby Dr. John Zeigler - PEP Ed » Sat Mar 10, 2007 10:40 am

One other thing occurred to me, though I believe it to be of low probability. Since you have the unit open, have you tried using a dust remover (can of Freon) to remove accumulated dust from the interior of the unit, particularly the circuit board. Sometimes dust accumulation can lead to shorts in the board, especially around the pins connecting discrete devices to the board. I rather doubt this is the problem, but I thought I'd mention it.

One other thing, since you have opened the unit, could you post a description of the steps involved in opening the unit? Several people over the years have asked about this. I've never taken the time to add it to the site, since it's been many years since I last opened a Miracle keyboard.
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Postby graphicfunk » Sat Mar 10, 2007 6:39 pm

Dr. John Zeigler - PEP Editor wrote:One other thing occurred to me, though I believe it to be of low probability. Since you have the unit open, have you tried using a dust remover (can of Freon) to remove accumulated dust from the interior of the unit, particularly the circuit board. Sometimes dust accumulation can lead to shorts in the board, especially around the pins connecting discrete devices to the board. I rather doubt this is the problem, but I thought I'd mention it.

One other thing, since you have opened the unit, could you post a description of the steps involved in opening the unit? Several people over the years have asked about this. I've never taken the time to add it to the site, since it's been many years since I last opened a Miracle keyboard.

The unit is incredibly clean: However, I always employ a bristle artist brush and gently brush away debri or dust but the board was very clean.

To remove it is very easy but slightly cumbersome until you are able to remove the keyboard sensor flat cable. Extreme caution is needed because damage can be easily inflicted. I use my bristle brush and what I do is I take a razor blade and shape the end of the brush like a shisel. This helps to begin prying apart a connector. Once the two cables are off then you have upteem screws to unscrew off the board. Each one must be approached with caution because you do not want to slip with the blade of the screwdriver. Also, as you progress make it a point to support the board with the other hand. It is also important to remove the speaker connector. Once all screws are off carefully remove the unit because most of the external connectors are seated or portude from the casing. Common sense will give you the clue. Of course, great caution must be employed once you have the board out. Electrostatic charges can easily minefest. I do my poking with the same wooden paint brush.

I used a single phillups screwdriver and you just have to seek these guys out. I stared removing screws from the bottom of the casing and then the top and keep testing when clearance happens. The unit has no surprise tension springs so the operation is straight forward.

One thing leads to the other. First, I have in my basement many music books, computer books for all languages like C, C++, Assembly, Java and a horrid collection of software dating back to dos. So, I decided to clean up while retrieving the miracle and I think I threw out an important cdrom belonging to the Piano Discovery. I just bought the software when Jump music appeared on the scene. I have in my hands, the classic volumes one and two, the christmas and the Beatles. They all work fine except that the actual methods, I believe there were 2, are absent. I combed through all the remaining stuff hoping it would be inside a Music book but no luck. It possibly went out by accident.
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Postby graphicfunk » Sat Mar 10, 2007 6:41 pm

graphicfunk wrote:
Dr. John Zeigler - PEP Editor wrote:One other thing occurred to me, though I believe it to be of low probability. Since you have the unit open, have you tried using a dust remover (can of Freon) to remove accumulated dust from the interior of the unit, particularly the circuit board. Sometimes dust accumulation can lead to shorts in the board, especially around the pins connecting discrete devices to the board. I rather doubt this is the problem, but I thought I'd mention it.

One other thing, since you have opened the unit, could you post a description of the steps involved in opening the unit? Several people over the years have asked about this. I've never taken the time to add it to the site, since it's been many years since I last opened a Miracle keyboard.

The unit is incredibly clean: However, I always employ a bristle artist brush and gently brush away debri or dust but the board was very clean.

To remove it is very easy but slightly cumbersome until you are able to remove the keyboard sensor flat cable. Extreme caution is needed because damage can be easily inflicted. I use my bristle brush and what I do is I take a razor blade and shape the end of the brush like a shisel. This helps to begin prying apart a connector. Once the two cables are off then you have upteem screws to unscrew off the board. Each one must be approached with caution because you do not want to slip with the blade of the screwdriver. Also, as you progress make it a point to support the board with the other hand. It is also important to remove the speaker connector. Once all screws are off carefully remove the unit because most of the external connectors are seated or portude from the casing. Common sense will give you the clue. Of course, great caution must be employed once you have the board out. Electrostatic charges can easily minefest. I do my poking with the same wooden paint brush.

I used a single phillups screwdriver and you just have to seek these guys out. I stared removing screws from the bottom of the casing and then the top and keep testing when clearance happens. The unit has no surprise tension springs so the operation is straight forward.

One thing leads to the other. First, I have in my basement many music books, computer books for all languages like C, C++, Assembly, Java and a horrid collection of software dating back to dos. So, I decided to clean up while retrieving the miracle and I think I threw out an important cdrom belonging to the Piano Discovery. I just bought the software when Jump music appeared on the scene. I have in my hands, the classic volumes one and two, the christmas and the Beatles. They all work fine except that the actual methods, I believe there were 2, are absent. I combed through all the remaining stuff hoping it would be inside a Music book but no luck. It possibly went out by accident.

This is just a post script. I am trying to figure how to edit a post. lol
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Postby Dr. John Zeigler - PEP Ed » Sun Mar 11, 2007 12:07 pm

graphicfunk wrote:This is just a post script. I am trying to figure how to edit a post. lol

You might as well stop trying to figure it out! You can't edit posts after posting until you become a Super Member with 25 or more posts. This is one of the incentives that I try to use to get people to participate.
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